SC GOP Rep Wilson screams during Obama Speech

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/gop-rep-wilson-yells-out_n_281480.html

During President Obama's major health care speech on Wednesday, South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson (R) yelled out "You lie!" when the President said the legislation would not mandate coverage for undocumented immigrants.

I guess he thought he was at a town hall meeting where GOPers are encouraged to scream down any dems trying to explain healthcare.

Hopefully McCain isn't the only GOPer who found this inappropriate of Wilson.

During an appearance on CNN after Obama's speech, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Wilson's outburst was "totally disrespectful -- [there's] no place for it in that setting or any other and he should apologize immediately."

where is vtreds

asshat pic?

Here's a picture of an asshole
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/103683/thumbs/s-JOE-WILSON-large.jpg

SC must be so proud of their politicians.

i agree that this was inappropriate and the guy is an asshat...but it's great watching Olbermann/Maddow act like this guy is Lee Harvey Oswald when they had a party laughing at Bush getting shoes thrown at him in Iraq and basically cheered on the attacker...

Well turn on Fox, or Rush, they're ready to make Wilson their GOP candidate in 2012.

well...they're idiots too then...i'm watching FOX right now...guess healthcare isn't important enough anymore...back to VAN JONES VAN JONES VAN JONES!!!

And in case anyone is going to say it's great that Wilson screamed "You Lie" at Obama (which I don't recall a Rep ever doing to Bush even when he lied about Iraq and 9/11):

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that "5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare," and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

Obama one minute scolds those for using scare tactics in opposing HCR...about a minute later:

"if we don't do something, PEOPLE WILL DIE!!!"....

Rep. Joe Wilson called the White House after the speech to apologize to chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel for yelling "You lie!" at President Obama, POLITICO's Jonathan Martin reports.

The personal apology comes in tandem with an abject statement that Wilson "let my emotions get the best of me" and that his "comments were inappropriate and regrettable." He said that he continues to believe illegal immigrants will be covered by health care legislation, though a House bill explicitly excludes them.

Republicans Lindsey Graham and John McCain, as well as a host of Democrats, sharply criticized Wilson's outburst.


.

Good, he apologized and it seemed earnest. Let's get back to what is important: Derek Jeters record. (Seriously, this country needs to et back on track with the important issues rather than the noise that surrounds them.)

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/103683/thumbs/s-JOE-WILSON-large.jpg

"Little did Joe Wilson know that he would fall prey to a practical joke, thinking that the entire Republican contingent had agreed to shout 'You Lie' at the same time."

http://www.wolv.org/ent/uploaded_images/Punk%27d_logo-715263.jpg

Good, he apologized and it seemed earnest. Let's get back to what is important: Derek Jeters record. (Seriously, this country needs to et back on track with the important issues rather than the noise that surrounds them.)
I thought it was a good speech in that Obama laid out the facts. I feel better about this plan after listening to him.

The heckling was total BS and WIlson should be ashamed.

Good, he apologized and it seemed earnest. Let's get back to what is important: Derek Jeters record.
Here in NYC, the major NY tabloids are all Jeter all the time, Obama had to share the front pages.

You do not shout down or at the President of the United States in a joint session of Congress. PERIOD.

If you want to reserve your applause, well that is acceptable to some......


I think a rebuke of Mr. Wilson's actions will be coming down the line....and don't be surprised if it initiated by the Minority leadership to make the point.

I don't think his apology is worth the paper he was forced to write it on. To show that lack of respect for a President in a joint session is something even the right-wing can't point to a Dem ever doing.

SC take on it:
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/935924.html

Rep. Joe Wilson, a little-known Republican from South Carolina, stole the spotlight Wednesday evening by yelling out "You lie!" during President Barack Obama's address to Congress.

Wilson, a former senior Justice Department lawyer under President Ronald Reagan, delivered his catcall when Obama said his health-care plan wouldn't extend benefits to illegal immigrants.

Heads swiveled in the ornate House of Representatives chamber as senators, representatives, Cabinet members and other dignitaries turned to see who'd broken decades of solemn protocol for the rare occasions when the president addresses a joint session of Congress.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona, Obama's 2008 Republican presidential rival, said that Wilson should apologize.

It's "totally disrespectful," McCain said on CNN. There's "no place for it in that setting or any other, and he should apologize immediately."

Wilson, 62, a former military officer who over a quarter century in politics has carefully honed his image as a courteous warrior, said he called the White House and apologized to Rahm Emanuel, Obama's chief of staff.

"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the president's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Wilson said in a statement.

"While I disagree with the president's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable," he said. "I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility."

Wilson's outburst made him instantaneously famous - a scourge to many, a hero to some.

Wilson's congressional Web site crashed and hundreds of calls started flooding into his office.

Other Republicans criticized Wilson, a onetime aide to the late Sen. Strom Thurmond who also served in the South Carolina General Assembly before he was elected to Congress in 2001.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, scolded Wilson without mentioning him by name.

"Our nation's president deserves to be treated with respect," Graham said. "It was an inappropriate remark, and I am glad an apology has been made."

Graham, however, also criticized Obama.

"I was incredibly disappointed in the tone of his speech," Graham said. "At times I found his tone to be overly combative and believe he behaved in a manner beneath the dignity of the office. I fear his speech tonight has made it more difficult - not less - to find common ground."

Rep. Bob Inglis, a South Carolina Republican, said: "The president deserves respect, especially when speaking to a joint session of the Congress. Our opposing views should be presented decently and in order, not as interruptions."

South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn, the House Majority Whip, a close political ally of Obama and the highest-ranking African-American in Congress, shot Wilson a furious glance after he yelled out.

Clyburn, though, chose not to comment on Wilson's remark after the address.

Read the comments after the story, these supporters of Wilson have no clue the difference between speaking out against a President and showing respect while he addresses the joint session. Many think this was great, and put Obama the Muslim commie in his place.

i agree that this was inappropriate and the guy is an asshat...but it's great watching Olbermann/Maddow act like this guy is Lee Harvey Oswald when they had a party laughing at Bush getting shoes thrown at him in Iraq and basically cheered on the attacker...

Really? A member of Congress threw a shoe at Bush during a major nationally televised speech? I musta missed that.

Apples and oranges.

Really? A member of Congress threw a shoe at Bush during a major nationally televised speech? I musta missed that.

Apples and oranges.

Doesn't matter, I've been reading justification all over the place for this because Bush got no respect in situations having nothing to do with him addressing a joint session.

Seems if you wrote a blog entry about Bush it is justification for this.

"Little did Joe Wilson know that he would fall prey to a practical joke, thinking that the entire Republican contingent had agreed to shout 'You Lie' at the same time."

i rarely post in the political threads, but i had to just pop in and say that this post made me giggle at my desk.

Doesn't matter, I've been reading justification all over the place for this because Bush got no respect in situations having nothing to do with him addressing a joint session.



NOTHING to do with addressing a joint session? How about a State of the Union address? Does that count?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html

As far as I am concerned, the POTUS is no more above criticism (of any kind) than anyone else. In fact the opposite.

What makes Wilson an asshat in my book is that he yelled "liar" at a moment that Obama was saying something perfectly accurate. that makes him the liar. and the asshat.

If I was President Obama

I tell that snot nose ass to stick his apology where the sun doesn't shine

and the get right to work on making his limited time left in Washington D.C.

SHEER LIVING HELL

NOTHING to do with addressing a joint session? How about a State of the Union address? Does that count?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html
I can't watch video at work, it's not working for me.

So which Democratic congressman or Senator was it?

If I was President Obama

I tell that snot nose ass to stick his apology where the sun doesn't shine

and the get right to work on making his limited time left in Washington D.C.

SHEER LIVING HELL

Would you be a 12 year old President Obama?

You don't call the President of the United States a liar

even when he might of been like shrub did in his justification for invading Iraq

You don't call the President of the United States a liar

even when he might of been like shrub did in his justification for invading Iraq
And what you are suggesting would have been an appropriate response by the president?

Of course yelling out "you lie" regarding coverage of illegals when the bill clearly states that people not legally in the US will NOT be covered, makes Wilson look even worse.

With the support and accolation by conservative media, I would not be surprised if there are more outbursts the next time President Obama addresses Congress. My mother thought Rep Wilson did nothing wrong and was surprised other GOPs didn't do the same.

And what you are suggesting would have been an appropriate response by the president?
Obama handled it perfectly, he looked at him, said Wilson was wrong, and continued.

http://themoderatevoice.com/45854/newest-hero-to-some-rep-joe-wilson-who-yelled-you-lie-at-obama/

I turned on the radio again and heard one talk show host talk with admiration about a man named Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

Who was this man who this host seemed to hold in such awe and esteem? What did he do that caused the host to seem so close to openly praising him, but just falling a tad short? What did he say that seemingly overshadowed some of Obama’s speech? Just what had I missed??

Wilson, this host said, was saying what he himself and others wanted to say. And, then, finally I learned: Wilson had shouted “You lie!” to President Barack Obama during Obama’s speech. Finally, I arrived home to check the weblogs and discover that to some writers Wilson is now the man of the hour.

Move over Joe the Plumber, you now have Wilson who injected in the usually respectful setting of a Presidential address some of what Joe the Plumber usually toils to remove.

It is truly hard to find a parallel in our history for another time when some partisans have begun to substitute such sheer, unadulterated hatred, resentment and emotional rage into a political process that has been known — and respected — around the world for its vigorous, spirited, and often aggressive opposition that (traditionally) operated within certain norms.

It’s as if a whole segment of America now needs to take Valerian Root — or Valium. Think about it: some now consider it actually admirable that a sitting member of Congress shouted “You lie!” in the middle of a Presidential speech. So much for the norms of a Presidential address to Congress..

Ironically. some of the folks who now consider Wilson an apparent political role model — probably someone they’d love to have their kids watch if he delivered a televised speech into classrooms — are among those who only a few years ago talked about Bush derangement syndrome and slapped that label on not just those truly deranged about Bush but on those simply critical of Bush.

The reaction to Obama on the part of some of his partisan foes is now making Bush derangement syndrome look like a hot and heavy Dawson’s Creek romance.

Here are the bottom lines:

1. The House and Senate have always had a certain decorum and there has been an institutional respect for Presidents who speak before it. You will find few instances of Presidents being heckled so bluntly and directly by an opposition member. And there is probably no precedent in the history of Congress where a member of Congress shouted out “You lie!” One LA talk show host tried to justify and rationalize it by talking lovingly of Britain’s tradition of the PM being grilled by shouting opposition members. Pure spin: Americans Senators and House members have never behaved in this manner towards any Presidents of either party.

2. Every day it seems the bar is being lowered on how some Americans address those who see things differently. You have to demonize and detest them; you can’t just assertively debate or challenge them.

3. Ben Smith, of The Politico — an online publication that can hardly be called a hotbed of socialism, liberalism, Marxism or part of the Obama spin machine — says Wilson was flat out WRONG (we won’t use the “l” word since Wilson believes what he shouted and most likely won’t let facts get in the way of his beliefs):

A loud voice from the Republican side of the hall answered, “You lie!” — my colleague Glenn Thrush reports it was Rep. Joe Wilson (R – S.C.) — drawing a second “It’s not true,” from Obama and a shake of Nancy Pelosi’s head.

The bill is designed to exclude those immigrants, though some Republicans have called for more explicit bans on funding for illegal immigrants and have claimed the bill will funnel money to illegal immigrants.

FactCheck.org described those claims as “false” and noted that one version of the legislation already includes an explicit bar on federal funding for illegal immigrants’ health care.

And — the way American politics operates — I fully expect to get emails demonizing FactCheck.org and The Politico.

But that’s the way it is now in American politics: the norms of even rough traditional American political battle are being cast off by some now as easily as a reptile casts off old skin.

Wilson shouted “You lie.”But some Americans most assuredly felt like shouting to him: “You embarrass.”

Meanwhlie, Wilson has apologized to Obama — but he’s now a hero in some quarters.

So look for Wilson to be a highly sought after guest and talking head now on Fox News and on Rush, Sean and Glenn’s shows.

If his political career sours, he’ll probably get his own TV or radio show (why not? It worked for Mark Foley..)

But if he appears on Levin’s show, don’t expect Levin to talk over him.

I am teaching my two young sons that they never talk when someone else is talking, regardless of who they are or the setting. It's rude and disrespectful, whether you are the POTUS or a four year old.

Mr. Wilson, I hope your taxes are in good order. Cause the IRS is going to be peeking..........

Really? A member of Congress threw a shoe at Bush during a major nationally televised speech? I musta missed that.

Apples and oranges.

Phil, i'm not trying to justify the asshat congressman...just finding it hilarious the over solemn reaction to it by 2 of my favorite comedians...they were apoplectic over how the "President" was treated...yet they really saw no need for respect when "President" Bush was attacked...the incidents are apples/oranges...the reaction...not so much

Mr. Wilson, I hope your taxes are in good order. Cause the IRS is going to be peeking..........

sounds like a Beatles song... :sing:

I am teaching my two young sons that they never talk when someone else is talking, regardless of who they are or the setting. It's rude and disrespectful, whether you are the POTUS or a four year old.


Exception to this rule #3a: It is ok to shout 'Yankees Suck' when others are speaking or cheering pro Yankee drivel.


Carry on.....

And what you are suggesting would have been an appropriate response by the president?

As I already stated

and will now amend

see to it that the RACIST asshat's limited remaining time in D.C. becomes LIVING HELL

If you want to call Joe Wilson's Congressional office and call him a racist or asshat you can do so by calling: (202) 225-2452.

Unfortunately, you can not visit his website. You get this message:

Due to exceptionally high traffic, this site is temporarily unavailable.

Please come back shortly."


Mr Wilson serves on the following committees. Armed Services, Education & Labor as well as Foreign Affairs.

I hear his opponent in the next election already raised over $100,000 since last night.

I am teaching my two young sons that they never talk when someone else is talking, regardless of who they are or the setting. It's rude and disrespectful, whether you are the POTUS or a four year old.

^^This is what came to mind.

As for the folks who laud him a 'hero' where are the mothers of these people to spank these kids for thinking it's ok to speak out of turn?

Also, has Wilson just set a precedent for aggressive lefties to yell 'You Lie!' at every member of the GOP who ever speaks? I think Wilson might have just learned a lesson on thinking before speaking.

As I already stated

and will now amend

see to it that the RACIST asshat's limited remaining time in D.C. becomes LIVING HELL
Racist?

I hear his opponent in the next election already raised over $100,000 since last night.
I don't think Mr. Wilson is going to have any problem getting re-elected in his district . . . and I would not be at all surprised if since last night he's raised 2x what his opponent has raised.

I don't think Mr. Wilson is going to have any problem getting re-elected in his district . . . and I would not be at all surprised if since last night he's raised 2x what his opponent has raised.
You're right, any state that has no problem with that governor running things has no problem with an idiot in the House.

On an even more disturbing note from last night's speech, WTF was up with that Santa suit that our pant load Secretary of State was sporting??? :eek:

Obama one minute scolds those for using scare tactics in opposing HCR...about a minute later:

"if we don't do something, PEOPLE WILL DIE!!!"....

I really don't want to post in this thread, but...

The difference here is that the scare tactics being used by the right (death panels, for instance), are total bullshit.

While people ARE dying because of lack of access to health care.

It all pales in comparison to the fright induced by the sight of Hillary in that Santa suit

http://www.thestate.com/politics/story/936597.html

Reaction to Wilson’s outburst mixed
Midlands reaction was mixed Thursday to U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson’s “You lie” outburst during President Barack Obama’s Wednesday evening address to Congress about healthcare reform.

The official Web site for the Lexington County Republican remained inoperable Thursday because of overwhelming traffic while the phone at his West Columbia reelection campaign headquarters bleated a constant busy signal.

Wilson supporters clamored to his Facebook.com page, leaving notes of support and congratulations. Wilson yelled out when Obama said the proposed health plan does not insure illegal immigrants.

“Thank you for speaking the truth from the heart last night, Joe,” one read. “It is appreciated, even if it did break the rules of decorum — it was sorely needed. You have my support and (you) are in my prayers!”

But others like Thomas Rembert Jr., a Democrat who lives in Wilson’s district, blasted out e-mails to his friends, encouraging them to call Wilson’s office and the newspaper.

“I’ve always been proud to be a South Carolinian until now,” Rembert said. “It just amazes me our (congressman) could yell out on national TV and call the president of the United States a liar. How can he disrespect the president in such a manner?”

Wilson later issued a statement of apology and called the White House to apologize.

That did not spare Wilson near universal condemnation in Congress. U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Seneca Republican, and U.S. Reps. James Clyburn, a

Columbia Democrat, and Bob Inglis, a Greenville Republican, all condemned Wilson’s outburst.

Wilson, 62, was first elected to Congress Dec. 18, 2001, in a special election to replace U.S. Rep. Floyd Spence, who died in office. His largely conservative district stretches from Lexington County east to Hilton Head Island.

Wilson said he followed the orders of Republican leadership and apologized. He said the White House accepted his apology.

“(White House leadership) indicated they appreciated the call and they said we need to have a civil discussion and I certainly agree with that,” Wilson told reporters today.

The political fallout for Wilson is still being measured.

Rob Miller, who is seeking the Democratic nomination to challenge Wilson, claims he has raised $200,000 since last night.

Gov. Sanford must love this guy, just when it sounded like SC was going to impeach him, they're busy dealing with Wilson.

Interesting that when Rep Wilson initially apologized he appeared 'sorry" for his outburst but now with Rush and others support he has now backpedaled stating he apologized only because he was FORCED to do so.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/10/2062538.aspx

From NBC’s Luke Russert

At around 6:30 this morning, the media started lining up outside of Rep. Joe Wilson’s (R-SC) office on Capitol Hill. On a normal day, one would be hard pressed to find more than a security guard in the Cannon office building at 6:30 a.m.

But when a sitting member of Congress shouts, “You lie” at the president of the United States during a joint session to Congress, normalcy not longer applies.

Starting at around 8:30 a.m. various groups supportive of Congressman Wilson’s comment began to stop by his office. First up: the Montgomery, Alabama Tea Party Patriots. When leaving the office, one of the four women that made up the group said, “He was right, and he needed to know it.”

Later, long-time anti-abortion rights activist Randall Terry, founder of “Operation Rescue,” stopped by to applaud Wilson’s effort.

“I came here to congratulate him,” Terry said, adding, “Last night, I jumped out of my chair when he yelled that; I was so fired up!”

Terry then distributed cards depicting the Boston Tea Party printed with the lines, “Remember the Boston Tea Party? We won’t pay for murder in health care.”

Ann Sullivan, a South Carolina native, sported an anti-tax T-shirt made by the conservative group “FreedomWorks.”

Sullivan said she stopped by the office because “I felt he needed a positive pat on the back, because I am sure the phone calls and everything else, otherwise I think he has done an outstanding job. People say things in the heat of the moment, and I honestly believe this is one of those times.”

Not everyone who stopped by the office was supportive. Vilma Leake, originally of Charleston, S.C., said she went inside to “bring him home.” Translation: She wouldn’t support his re-election. Wilson won his re-election in 2008, 54% to 46%, which mirrored how John McCain faired in his district in the ’08 election, 54% to 45% over Obama. Wilson, whose district is 27% African-American, won re-election in the previous two elections with percentages in the 60s.

“Wilson set a bad example for the young people in his office,” Leake concluded.

From NBC’s Luke Russert

that's as far as i got...

that's as far as i got...
The minute I saw it was him I knew you'd comment on poor Luke.

But I think the fact that this guy is pals with a terrorist like Randall Terry is pretty telling.

yea...i got no use for Terry...

Got to hand it to Wilson - ignorance looks really good on him.

Looking into the background of Rep. Joe Wilson, R-South Carolina, after his heckling of President Obama last night, I came across this:

Joe also has been a member of the Columbia World Affairs Council, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Sinclair Lodge 154, Jamil Temple, Woodmen of the World, Sons of Confederate Veterans, ....

This is an organization that, as the SPLC has detailed assiduously, has been taken over in the past decade by radical neo-Confederates who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution. Leading the takeover is a radical racist named Kirk Lyons, who's been an important legal figure on the far right for some years.* [More below]

In more recent years, the takeover has led to an outright internal civil war. Andrew Meacham at the St. Petersburg Times detailed the internal rift last year:

Experts say the divisions within the Sons vary between two extremes. On one side are the traditionalists, members who focus on cleaning up Confederate grave sites and conducting Civil War re-enactments.

On the other side are the so-called Lunatics, up to 2,000 members who deride traditionalists as "grannies'' and belong to camps named after notorious Southern figures such as John Wilkes Booth and Jesse James.

John Wilkes Booth members have been known to put pennies in urinals, making sure to leave the Lincoln side face-up. Other Lunatic groups have removed the U.S. flag from their halls and banned the Pledge of Allegiance, says Walter Hilderman, who several years ago created an anti-Lunatic group called Save the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

"The problem is it's supposed to be a patriotic organization," says Hilderman, 59. "You are either that or you let guys in who want to secede."

As Heidi Beirich at the SPLC reported, this rift has led to Lyons himself coming under harsh attack from his own right flank. The SCV is a serious mess.

Now, add this to the fact that Joe Wilson, as a state legislator, was one of only seven Republicans to go against their own party and vote to keep the Dixie Rebel flag flying over the South Carolina capitol:

The flag came down that year after Republicans in both houses went for a compromise that would put it on Statehouse grounds at the Confederate Soldier’s monument. The “Magnificent Seven” of Senators who voted to keep the flag up included current Congressman Joe Wilson (who I served with in the 218th Infantry Brigade of the National Guard.)

A clearer picture of why this congressman might so virulently breach protocol and loudly interrupt an African-American president's speech to Congress by calling him a liar does start to emerge, doesn't it?

So inquiring minds want to know:


Is Joe Wilson still a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans?

If so, does he condone the activities of the "Lunatic" faction that now controls the SCV?

Does Joe Wilson consider the Republican Party "the Party of Lincoln"?

Does Joe Wilson support secession?


http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-heckler-joe-wilson-member-neo

Of course yelling out "you lie" regarding coverage of illegals when the bill clearly states that people not legally in the US will NOT be covered, makes Wilson look even worse.

With the support and accolation by conservative media, I would not be surprised if there are more outbursts the next time President Obama addresses Congress. My mother thought Rep Wilson did nothing wrong and was surprised other GOPs didn't do the same.

Actually, that's not true. It does not state specifically that illegals won't be covered. They're not mentioned at all.

As for Wilson, I don't remember any Democrats apologizing for having booed during W's SOTU speech a few years ago. And, unlike Barry, W was telling the truth in that speech (he'd been saying that Social Security is going bankrupt).

members have been known to put pennies in urinals, making sure to leave the Lincoln side face-upReplace pennies with dimes, placed head's side up.

Actually, that's not true. It does not state specifically that illegals won't be covered. They're not mentioned at all.


OMG you're right!!!! In fact, it doesn't say hedgehogs aren't covered either. And what about puppets - they're like people, only wood - they're probably covered too. And if Christ is in fact coming soon, he better not expect us to pick up is healthcare tab either, even though there is nothing specificaly about him in this legislation. We have a lot of riders to add, this is going to be a long night.

Actually, that's not true. It does not state specifically that illegals won't be covered. They're not mentioned at all.



wtf is wrong with you? not only is that false, but simply reading this thread shows its false:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Don't blame her, she got Rush's redacted copy. Now, about those hedgehogs...

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Winston Churchill

Special Comment tonight!!! Special Comment tonight!!!

Never underestimate a person's ability to see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and ignore all else....

I'm just sayin'... :shrug:

Lawrence O'Donnell (idiot asshole): "if a Democrat had shouted at Bush like this, he'd find himself in Guantanamo the next day"...

Keith Olbermann (turning Wilson issue into a racial one): "Republicans haven't called him (Obama) the N-word......yet"

so fucking stupid...

Lawrence O'Donnell (idiot asshole): "if a Democrat had shouted at Bush like this, he'd find himself in Guantanamo the next day"...

Keith Olbermann (turning Wilson issue into a racial one): "Republicans haven't called him (Obama) the N-word......yet"

so fucking stupid...


Olbermann is stupid. No argument here.

The SCV is a serious mess.



SCV shall rise again!

I'm curious as to why a specific bill is introduced here as if the entire health care reform debate is over and we now have a bill to vote on?

Aren't the Dems still negotiating with each other over whether there will be a public option or not? All the quotes I read from people like Pelosi say, "I am confident the president will sign A bill (not THE bill) before the end of the year. We don't even know if there will be a public option in the bill or co-ops or whatever.

So why is Cyberlibrarian being taken to task for stating that none of these things e.g. medical help for non-citizens are not in THE bill when there is no final version of any bill?

I guess I should add that Obama has supported public health care for non-citizens in the past.

As for Joe Wilson, does anybody here besides probably Say Hey, remember TV announcer "Whispering" Joe Wilson from the early days of televised bowling? Maybe this Joe should have taken a clue there.

Anyway, look for JW to win in a landslide. "YOU LIE" bumper stickers will soon be seen throughout South Carolina...... :)

Anyway, look for JW to win in a landslide. "YOU LIE" bumper stickers will soon be seen throughout South Carolina...... :)I think beyond The Palmetto State, as well
http://www.stickershoppe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/R115.jpg

Anyway, look for JW to win in a landslide. "YOU LIE" bumper stickers will soon be seen throughout South Carolina...... :)
Interesting that you're so proud of someone who is such an idiot.

His opponent has already raised $500,000 and put up a good fight last time.

Interesting you're so concerned about a Congressman from my state getting elected or not. You might want to work on simmering down your rage at anything to the right of Corzine or non compos mentis Lautenberg (who is probably still running around the Capitol saying, "What happened....what happened".)

As much as I loved my years in Montclair and my home state, you do realize that New Jersey is the laughing stock of most of the country. (Unfairly IMO)

Interesting you're so concerned about a Congressman from my state getting elected or not. You might want to work on simmering down your rage at anything to the right of Corzine or non compos mentis Lautenberg (who is probably still running around the Capitol saying, "What happened....what happened".)
See, this is where the right-wingers like you and Julie lose all credibility, because you think that, like you only backing GOPers, I only support democrats. If you took a second to see what I've posted about Jersey politics before talking shit, you might not come off like a Joe Wilson-like idiot.

And it matters to me that GOPers like yourself and Julie thinks it's OK for Congressmen to heckle the President in a Joint Session, and when given proof the heckler is wrong to imply that in the future he might be right because not everything has been written and decided on yet.

The convulted way you two go to support the actions of this idiot is amazing.

btw, vtred, KO might not have been too far off wondering if Wilson's a racist. According to Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/11/sc-voters-surprised-wilsons-lie-outburst/

In 2003, Wilson called it "unseemly" for the mixed-race daughter of Sen. Strom Thurmond, Essie Mae Washington-Williams, to identify the longtime South Carolina senator as her father after his death.

"It's a smear on the image that (Thurmond) has as a person of high integrity who has been so loyal to the people of South Carolina," he told The State newspaper of Columbia. Wilson had worked as an intern in Thurmond's office. After a public outcry, he said he had the utmost respect for Washington-Williams.

And again, the only reason he apologized to the black person was because he was forced to.

btw, vtred, KO might not have been too far off wondering if Wilson's a racist. According to Fox News:



Wilson may be a racist..he's already an idiot...but asshole Olbermann was talking about the Republican party last night with his statements last night...stupid

"It's a smear on the image that (Thurmond) has as a person of high integrity"


it was a smear - but not that Throm had a child with an African-American woman - but that he was a coward!!!! He certainly didn't display any "integrity" in his actions.

Anyway, look for JW to win in a landslide.

Res ipsa loquitur

Interesting you're so concerned about a Congressman from my state getting elected or not. You might want to work on simmering down your rage at anything to the right of Corzine or non compos mentis Lautenberg (who is probably still running around the Capitol saying, "What happened....what happened".)

As much as I loved my years in Montclair and my home state, you do realize that New Jersey is the laughing stock of most of the country. (Unfairly IMO)

Really? New York hasn't supplanted New Jersey yet? :rolleyes:

http://cagle.com/working/090910/breen.jpg


http://cagle.com/working/090908/stein.jpg


http://cagle.com/working/090910/rogers.gif


http://cagle.com/working/090910/crowe.jpg




http://cagle.com/working/090910/mikescott.jpg

I really don't want to post in this thread, but...

The difference here is that the scare tactics being used by the right (death panels, for instance), are total bullshit.

Obama has already created a death panel back with Porkulus

It's euphemistically named: The Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Their goal is to determine what treatments for what patients are "economically effective". The "Council" will do this by assigning a value to a year of life based on age, existing conditions, potential productivity, etc. If a procedure or treatment exceeds that value, you don't get it and are S.O.O.L.

In other words it's already a death panel, the entire logic of the bill points toward death panels

While people ARE dying because of lack of access to health care.

Yeah, it's Republicans who are using "Scare tactics" :rolleyes:

But yeah, if only all you Liberals weren't hypocrites and would only be as compassionate with YOUR OWN MONEY as you are with other people's money and donate to charity like Conservatives do, who knows how many people you could have saved.

BTW, how many people HAVE died under socialized medicine because they waited too long on a waiting list, or been refused treatment because of rationing or were forced to use a less effective but cheaper drug, etc?.

Never underestimate a person's ability to see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and ignore all else....

I'm just sayin'...


That explains Liberalism to a tee

No philosophy in history has caused more death, more misery and has destroyed more lives than the various flavors of leftest thought, but despite all the destruction there is still a large number of people who are still delusional enough to think that if we only get the right people in or if only we just spend more money that this time things will be different.

But as for illegal immigrants, of course they will be covered.

Sure there's that statement in section 246 but

1) There's nothing in this bill to back it up. In fact the Democrats killed Republican amendments that would have required proof of citizenship, So there's nothing stopping the out of control fraud from occurring that's already endemic in other social programs.

So yeah technically illegal aliens can't receive Obamacare, just like technically illegal aliens can't receive welfare, food stamps, medicaid, social security, etc. but in reality they do and THEY WILL.

2) Anchor babies

3) The point will be moot if Obama passes his Amnesty, instead of being illegal immigrants they will be "Guest Workers" and then they will then most certainly get to be on Obamacare.

So sorry, Obama is lying, and yes while your 75 old grandma's treatment could be judged not "economically effective", a 25 year old who just hopped the border last week will get fully paid for health benefits thanks to you the American sucker... errrr I mean taxpayer

***

Those cartoons are great.....love 'em. Keep 'em coming.

Funny skit closing out the ABC Sunday News program. I think it was from kimmel's show.

The camera shows Obama making his case before the full Senate and then there is an interruption. The camera pans to Hugo Chavez sitting among the Congressmen shouting, "you promised action by August, then December. Will we have to wait 'til 'ULY.

Both Wilson and his challenger have now raised over $1 million in contributions since the "You Lie" incident

Ironic thing is that Wilson's opponent, Rob Miller has just the kind of background many on the left would ridicule in a more conservative, Southern politician. Basically a High School graduate who was a "lifer" in the Marine Corp before retiring after roughly 2 tours of duty.

A kind of Sarah Palin's family background.....

Ironic thing is that Wilson's opponent, Rob Miller has just the kind of background many on the left would ridicule in a more conservative, Southern politician. Basically a High School graduate who was a "lifer" in the Marine Corp before retiring after roughly 2 tours of duty.


See that's the kind of generalization about the left and right that gets us all into trouble. I'd give you that in the 70s and 80s that might have been more of the case, but folks on both sides have avery different respect for the military today.

A kind of Sarah Palin's family background.....


but is he a mouth-breathing clinical moron? ooops, nope. so scratch that comparison.

Ironic thing is that Wilson's opponent, Rob Miller has just the kind of background many on the left would ridicule in a more conservative, Southern politician. Basically a High School graduate who was a "lifer" in the Marine Corp before retiring after roughly 2 tours of duty.

A kind of Sarah Palin's family background.....


oh, and btw: who in palin's family served? not her. not her husband. none of their kids.

so scratch that part of the comparison too.

oh, and btw: who in palin's family served? not her. not her husband. none of their kids.

so scratch that part of the comparison too.

Wait, doesn't she have a son serving over in Iraq?

Wait, doesn't she have a son serving over in Iraq?


so he is.

still, that was after palin's political career was well under way.

so he is? How could anybody not know that?

Scratch that. Some are too pre-occupied with being a New York wiseguy.

See that's the kind of generalization about the left and right that gets us all into trouble. I'd give you that in the 70s and 80s that might have been more of the case, but folks on both sides have avery different respect for the military today.

Gee LV, many here (not you) seem to want to place all those segregationist Democrats from the 1950's and 60's into the Republican camp. Perhaps some of the left is changing but their viciousness against American soldiers of the era you mention is sometimes hard to forget.

I also think that looking at soldiers as somehow "victims" is still very much a part of the condescending attitude of the radical left.

so he is? How could anybody not know that?




really? how could anybody care less? she's not even the governor of the smallest state in union anymore.

really? how could anybody care less? she's not even the governor of the smallest state in union anymore.
I suppose you mean "smallest" in terms of population, but I believe that distinction belongs to Wyoming - so it appears that you are misinformed, Mr Bix . . . which makes twice in this thread alone ;)

so he is.

still, that was after palin's political career was well under way.


Well, the United States, as a rule, tries not to send children into combat.

I suppose you mean "smallest" in terms of population, but I believe that distinction belongs to Wyoming - so it appears that you are misinformed, Mr Bix . . . which makes twice in this thread alone ;)

no sir. I believe if you read my post carefully, it contains no factual errors. So that makes us wrong once each in this thread, Mr. Lastima. ;)

As for my other post, while it contained a factual error, that error was incidental. I believe my point stands: Ms Palin and Mr Miller have nothing in common in terms of family "background". Sending your son to war after your political career is in full swing is not the same thing as coming from a military family, or running for office after you yourself have served. hardly.

Mr Bix - While it is indeed a factually correct statement that she is "not even the gov. of the smallest state in the union" - such statement is true only because she was never gov. of the smallest state in the union . . . is that the type of "wise guy" reasoning you accept from your college students? :rolleyes:

it appears that you are misinformed, Mr Bix


it is indeed a factually correct statement that she is no longer gov. of the smallest state in the union

I accept your apology, Mr Lastima.

she's not even the governor of the smallest state in union anymore.Well, then to further split hairs with you, I'd say that your use of "anymore" at the end of your statement blows up your flawed logic, in any event, since "anymore" clearly implies that you believed she once was the gov of the smallest state in the union.

Your students must be real stars, with that kind of tutelage. :rolleyes:

Do you really want to split hairs? If so, I will edumacate you:

The addition of "anymore" does not _imply_ anything. If the moon was never made of green cheese, then _semantically_, it true that "it is not made of green cheese anymore."

Many would say, however, that as a matter of _pragmatics_, when you add "anymore" to the end of a negation, it has the _pragmatic force_ that the sentence would have been true if uttered at some time in the past. But _implication_ is not in the domain of pragmatics, implicature (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/implicature/) is.

So, it is false that the addition of "anymore" _implies_ anything. At most it _implicates_ something.

Now first, it is wrong to say someone has said something false when in fact they have only implicated something false. So, you have erred two more times in this thread, Mr. Lastima.

Second, I dont think I even implicated that Alaska was the smallest state (though matters of pragmatics are matters of judgment, and not trully of fact), since I was clearly being hyperbolic and sarcastic, and under such conditions, the normal norms of pragmatics are off.

True fact: when I wrote the sentence, it occurred to me that Alaska might not be the smallest state. And I almost changed it to "most insignificant state" to be safe. But I decided that the negation made me safe anyway.

Ironic thing is that Wilson's opponent, Rob Miller has just the kind of background many on the left would ridicule in a more conservative, Southern politician. Basically a High School graduate who was a "lifer" in the Marine Corp before retiring after roughly 2 tours of duty.
You mean the same dems who voted for an actual Vietnam Vet over a weekend warrior?

In the past you would have chosen the career military guy (Miller) over the guy in the national guard to avoid Vietnam guy (Wilson), but I guess supporting Bush changed all that.

A kind of Sarah Palin's family background.....
The only member of her immediate family in the armed services is her son, who had a choice: jail or service. Not the same thing.

With reasoning like that, it's no wonder so many of America's kids are graduating college as functional illiterates, Mr. Bix . . . but keep chopping that academic wood

With reasoning like that, it's no wonder so many of America's kids are graduating college as functional illiterates, Mr. Bix . . . but keep chopping that academic wood

splitting hairs, chopping wood. make up your mind.

Seeing as you're in academia, you best stick with splitting hairs 'cause chopping wood is hard work ;)

I was suggesting the comparison of the 2 families had more in common than just the military experience. But on the military, I would add this comment. A mother having a son shipping off to combat must be a great emotional weight as it is with so many "average" families around the country whose sons and daughters fight our wars. I think the Miller family background knows this feeling and it was that comparison I was making.

But Miller was also a HS graduate who dropped out of his freshman year at the College of Charleston to join the Marines. His education was in the field and not the ivory towers of the classroom. Much of the Left, especially in the Northeast, finds that kind of background..well....ahem....somewhat beneath their status. I think part of the attack on Palin is that her background puts her in that same kind of "not one of us" category.

As for some comic relief here: I have to introduce Sen Glenn McConnell (R) at a dinner Wednesday night to a non-political audience.. I think my opener will be, "well I must say that being an elected Republican in South Carolina has to be interesting these days"...... :)

Much of the Left, especially in the Northeast, finds that kind of background..well....ahem....somewhat beneath their status. I think part of the attack on Palin is that her background puts her in that same kind of "not one of us" category.
Well we can always hope to one day be as open minded as Southern Conservatives.

I suppose if somebody tells me that the Mets have had a bad year, I can always answer that Washington's is worse.

As for some comic relief here: I have to introduce Sen Glenn McConnell (R) at a dinner Wednesday night to a non-political audience.. I think my opener will be, "well I must say that being an elected Republican in South Carolina has to be interesting these days"...... :)

Or you could do it via satellite hook-up from Argentina....

I suppose if somebody tells me that the Mets have had a bad year, I can always answer that Washington's is worse.
That would depend. Are they constantly telling you the Mets had a bad year, whether it fits or not?

http://cagle.com/working/090914/walters.jpg


http://cagle.com/working/090912/keefe.jpg

I must admit that calling out the President of the United States as having lied is unprecedented in this day and age.... :rolleyes:

And although I agree with the decorum issue in Congress it does make me chuckle to listen to Democrats get high 'n' mighty about decorum. The word has such a Republican ring to it.... :)

And although I agree with the decorum issue in Congress it does make me chuckle to listen to Democrats get high 'n' mighty about decorum. The word has such a Republican ring to it.... :)

like this?:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/15/congressman-says-some-people-arent-worth-peeing-on/

(CNN) — Rep. Barney Frank, D-Massachusetts, raised eyebrows last month when he told a constituent at a raucous health care town hall event, "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table."

Now Rep. Pete Stark, D-California, is involved in a similar instant YouTube classic, telling a town-hall participant over the weekend that he wouldn't "waste the urine" to pee on the man's leg.

First reported by the San Francisco Chronicle and confirmed by a YouTube clip of the event, the longtime congressman made the remark after the participant launched into a long, but calm, litany about government inefficiency when it comes to nation's health care system. The man concluded his remarks with warning Stark not to "pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

As the audience cheered, a calm Stark responded: "Well, I wouldn't dignify you by peeing on your leg. It wouldn't be worth wasting the urine."

There was a mixture of laughter and boos as Stark motioned for the next question.

I must admit that calling out the President of the United States as having lied is unprecedented in this day and age.... :rolleyes:

You and vtred crack me up.

It IS unprecedented at a joint session. It IS against the rules of the House and Senate.

It is not the same as responding to getting yelled at at town halls, no matter how much you want to act like it is.

how many times do i have to say Wilson was wrong??...but it's also wrong to talk like that to one your constituents...of course you'll now tell me that the old geezer was probably bused in frim KKKland...

how many times do i have to say Wilson was wrong??...but it's also wrong to talk like that to one your constituents...of course you'll now tell me that the old geezer was probably bused in frim KKKland...
No, but I heard what the woman said to Frank and he was nice in comparison to her bringing up Nazis to a Jewish Senator.

No idea about the other guy.

Doesn't change the fact that it is NOT the same thing, what Wilson did is against the rules of the House. period.

Overlooked detail about the Barney Frank exchange is that the woman that used the Nazi references was a lefty wing nut from the Lyndon Larouche movement

Doesn't change the fact that it is NOT the same thing, what Wilson did is against the rules of the House. period.

wow...your reading comprehension needs some work...both Tarheel and I BOTH agreed that Wilson showed a lack of decorum...

No reading comp problems, in fact, I read everything you both wrote and the fact you compare what Wilson did to someone losing their temper after being verbally abused by a group of people, no, I don't get the comparison.

again...comprehension needs work...here are the key words "dems high and mighty about decorum"...and i posted my example...no one is comparing the two...

Overlooked detail about the Barney Frank exchange is that the woman that used the Nazi references was a lefty wing nut from the Lyndon Larouche movement

I never thought of the larouchites as lefties. they're straight up fascists.

In 1979, a two-part article by Howard Blum and Paul Montgomery appeared in the New York Times that accused LaRouche of running a cult.[47] Blum wrote that LaRouche had turned the U.S. Labor Party—with 1,000 members listed in 37 offices in North America, and 26 in Europe and Latin America—into an extreme-right, anti-Semitic organization, despite the presence of Jewish members. The Times alleged that members had taken courses in how to use knives and rifles, and had produced reports for South Africa on anti-apartheid groups in the United States. A farm in upstate New York was allegedly being used for guerrilla training, attended by LaRouche members from Germany and Mexico. Several members also underwent a six-day anti-terrorist training course, at a cost of $200 per person per day, at a camp in Powder Springs, Georgia, run by Mitchell L. Werbell, an international arms dealer, who had served as an advisor to several Latin American dictators and who said he was connected to the CIA.[32]

The Times reported that U.S. Labor Party members were playing a dominant role in a number of companies in Manhattan: Computron Technologies Corporation, which included Mobil Oil and Citibank among its clients; World Composition Services, which the Times wrote had one of the most advanced typesetting complexes in the city and had the Ford Foundation among its clients; and PMR Associates, a printing shop that produced the party's publications and some high school newspapers (see below).[32]

Blum wrote that, from 1976 onwards, party members were transmitting intelligence reports on left-wing members to the FBI and local police. In 1977, he wrote, commercial reports on U.S. anti-apartheid groups were prepared by LaRouche members for the South African government, student dissidents were reported to the Shah of Iran's Savak secret police, and the anti-nuclear movement was investigated on behalf of power companies. He also wrote that LaRouche was telling his membership several times a year that he was being targeted for assassination, including by the Queen, "big-time Zionist mobsters," the Council on Foreign Relations, the Justice Department, and the Mossad.[32]

Blum alleged that U.S. Labor Party members were exchanging almost daily information with Roy Frankhouser, who called himself the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan in Pennsylvania, and who had been accused of being a member of the American Nazi Party. Frankhouser had been convicted in 1975 of conspiring to sell half a ton of dynamite and had marched on Fifth Avenue in New York wearing a Gestapo uniform. LaRouche reportedly called Frankhouser a "high intelligence source,"[32] though he later denied this, saying that in fact he had a low opinion of Frankhouser..

You and vtred crack me up.

It IS unprecedented at a joint session. It IS against the rules of the House and Senate.

It is not the same as responding to getting yelled at at town halls, no matter how much you want to act like it is.

Bush was booed in joint session for his comments on Social Security. No one apologized. The apology was given. It's over.

Bush was booed in joint session for his comments on Social Security. No one apologized. The apology was given. It's over.
I don't know that booing is against the rules. Calling the President a liar or accusing him of lying during an address to Congress is specifically AGAINST the HOUSE rules. Period.

I don't know that booing is against the rules. Calling the President a liar or accusing him of lying during an address to Congress is specifically AGAINST the HOUSE rules. Period.
It's over. Move on.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon091509.gif

The evil jackass that runs Daily Kos just told Keith Olbermann that 2/3 of Republicans don't believe Obama was born in the United States...fuck you asshole...the fact the his hate monger can be taken seriously by MSNBC is laughable...

please feel free to state all the hate mongers that FOX uses (that I don't watch) so that you don't have to address the blatant falsehood in this idiots statement...

Also, if you've never seen the Wilson clip and only read NYT and watch MSNBC...then this is what Wilson said "You lie n****r"...

It's being suggested that Wilson had to restrain himself from actually hurling a racial epithet towards the President...

you're right. its only 58%! What a hate mongering asshole.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

and before you jump up and down about it being a dailykos poll, its run by research 2000, and its a perfectly scientific poll.

I have a fitting with my tailor tomorrow afternoon :rolleyes: . . . what an idiot

Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) told reporters today that he supports a resolution for disapproval for Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) because Wilson's remarks are instigating a racist sentiment that could lead to a resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan.

"It did not help the cause of diversity and tolerance with his remarks. If I was a betting man, I'd say it instigated more racist sentiment, feeling that it's OK, that you don't have to bury it down," Johnson said.

"I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside, intimidating people," he said. "That's the logical conclusion if this kind of attitude is not rebuked."

looks like 28% to me...but sorry...i give this poll as much credence as the creepy Rasmussen guy FOX uses...

There's a Democatic congressman from Georgia?!?!?! :eek:

vtred - did you schedule your fitting yet?

Right now on KO...the big BREAKING NEWS...

Jimmy Carter thinks Republicans are racists...good to know...

looks like 28% to me...but sorry...i give this poll as much credence as the creepy Rasmussen guy FOX uses...


and once again bix has to offer his tutoring services in logic (I guess someone has to chop the fucking wood around here):

if you answer "not sure" to "was obama born in the US", then it is not the case that you "think he was born in the US", hence you "dont think he was born in the US."

And you may not trust his polling results, but that makes you idiosyncratic. it hardly makes him a hate mongerer when he is reporting a scientific fact.

240-179 the House voted to disapprove of Wilson because of where he said what he said. 7 republicans voted for the measure, 12 dems against, and some just voted present.

Barney Frank said he didn't think it was up to them to decide whether or not people are jerks.

Michelle Bachmann said thank god for Joe Wilson.

Personally, I find Michelle Bachmann wildly entertaining - they just don't get shit-house rat crazier then her....I think.

I find her very scary because she's so insane and still managed to get re-elected.

I find her very scary because she's so insane and still managed to get re-elected.
Who? Madam Speaker?

Focus, KL, follow the threads, shouldn't be that tough for someone posting 24/7 considering all that experience.

I have a fitting with my tailor tomorrow afternoon :rolleyes: . . . what an idiot
Sen Robert Byrd, Democrat, former member of the KKK

I find her very scary because she's so insane and still managed to get re-elected.
Just like Pelosi, minus the mob connections.

Your wit is really boundless and timeless, isn't it koal - must have been a throw-in with along your doctoral degree.

Still practicing that Upper East Side dinner party wit, I see, CLK . . . so droll . . . you must get invited to the very best of chic liberal gatherings :rolleyes:

Oh, btw, I've been meaning to ask you: Have you had an opportunity to shop at your hero's wife's furniture store yet??? That ought to make for some lively dinner conversation at your next gathering.http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

Who? Madam Speaker?
Find one place where I've ever said I like Pelosi.

Unlike you and the crazy right-wingers here, I actually have voted for people in the other party and have found fault with those in my own.

Here's the good news for Americans. When the Democratic party turns to poor Jimmy Carter (Jimmy please, nobody is listening to you) to bring out the race card against Republicans, you know the Health Care bill as the extreme left in this country visualized it is DEAD IN THE WATER.

Unlike you and the crazy right-wingers here, I actually have voted for people in the other party and have found fault with those in my own.
Moi??? Have you not seen my posts regarding "America's Mayor"? And for the record, I voted for Senator Moynihan each time he ran, as he was that rare breed of NY Democrat (and now virtually extinct) possessing integrity, independence and common sense .

Moi??? Have you not seen my posts regarding "America's Mayor"? And for the record, I voted for Senator Moynihan each time he ran, as he was that rare breed of NY Democrat (and now virtually extinct) possessing integrity, independence and common sense .


And he made Ted Kennedy appear sober.

Are you stereotyping Irish politicians?

Are you stereotyping Irish politicians?


Not at all. Just those two specifically.


:drinking: :drunk:

I feel certain that they are the only two...... ;)

Still practicing that Upper East Side dinner party wit, I see, CLK . . . so droll . . . you must get invited to the very best of chic liberal gatherings :rolleyes:http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

Dear Hard Posting Chimp - you might have missed it (god knows how) but on earlier GSS thread, koal claimed to have a doctorate, but once challenged, immediately backed down.

. . . Perhaps some of the left is changing but their viciousness against American soldiers of the era you mention is sometimes hard to forget.


Again, I really don't want to post in this thread, but...

In 2004, the Dems nominated a military man for president. The Republicans responded by mocking his military record--remember those "purple-heart Band-aids"? What would have been the reaction from the right if the Dems had ridiculed John McCain for having been a POW?

That "left hates the military" is an awfully old card to play.

Dear Hard Posting Chimp - you might have missed it (god knows how) but on earlier GSS thread, koal claimed to have a doctorate, but once challenged, immediately backed down.I was not aware of that kerfuffle, so fair enough, CLK . . . so that just leaves your response to my question regarding your hero and his wife's furniture store . . . have you had a chance to visit yet and peruse the merchandise??? If so, do tell all about it . . . I so enjoy when you wax poetic regarding your hero.http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

I was not aware of that kerfuffle, so fair enough, CLK . . . so that just leaves your response to my question regarding your hero and his wife's furniture store . . . have you had a chance to visit yet and peruse the merchandise??? If so, do tell all about it . . . I so enjoy when you wax poetic regarding your hero.http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070
Can I just say that kerfuffle is my favorite word?

http://www.grandslamsingle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16681&highlight=kerfuffle

Over at Fox News they have a big headline saying Carter called everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist, which he didn't, I heard what he said.

Wilson's son came to his dad's defense in the AP and the funniest thing he said was this:

There is not a racist bone in my dad's body," said Alan Wilson, an Iraq veteran who is running for state attorney general in South Carolina. "He doesn't even laugh at distasteful jokes. I won't comment on former President Carter, because I don't know President Carter. But I know my dad, and it's just not in him."

The fact people think it's OK to tell his dad distasteful jokes - - not an issue? Wow, Joe Wilson isn't a racist because he keeps a straight face when his friends tell racist jokes.

It looks like the typical Liberal Smear tactics are failing


Just 12% Say Most Opponents of Obama Health Care Plan Are Racist (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/12_say_most_opponents_of_obama_health_care_plan_are_racist)

Twelve percent (12%) of voters nationwide believe that most opponents of President Obama’s health care reform plan are racist. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 67% of voters disagree, and 21% are not sure.

In recent days, several Democrats have suggested that racism is a factor. The most prominent to make that accusation is former President Jimmy Carter.

Eighty-eight percent (88%) of Republicans reject the notion that most of the opponents are racist. So do 78% of voters not affiliated with either major party. However, just 39% of Democrats share that view. Twenty-two percent (22%) of those in the president’s party say that most of the opposition to his plan comes from racists, and another 39% are not sure.

if it's not a Daily Kos poll...i ain't believing it...

OK I've had a lot of respect for Jimmy Carter in the past (probably b/c he's the first pres I remember, and his later diplomacy and Habitat for Humanity work). But can he just STFU about this one?

Maybe I am cranky from lack of sleep, but just as I hate the overexaggerations about military hating liberals/Dems, brushing the majority of opponents to Obama with the racist brush is ridiculous. Yes there is a very vocal minority of lunatic fringe racists in the party, and some more "regular" folks are drivin by either underlying or even outright racisms, but making the claim that all/most objectors object because of their racism is unfair and totally counterproductive.

yes, because Rasmussen polls are so good at asking the right question.

Carter never said all opposition was due to racism, he said it was the crazy nuts shouting awful things and carrying awful signs that have NOTHING to do with any issues who are. If Joe Wilson's fans think that's him, so be it. Carter never named names.

And as was pointed out on one show last night, if it wasn't about race for these folks, they why aren't they attacking the actual policies (instead of made up ones like death panels) like they did with Hillary when they supposedly hated her more than anything yet still didn't question her birth or religion.

but making the claim that all/most objectors object because of their racism is unfair and totally counterproductive.
He never said that.

I was not aware of that kerfuffle, so fair enough, CLK . . . so that just leaves your response to my question regarding your hero and his wife's furniture store . . . have you had a chance to visit yet and peruse the merchandise??? If so, do tell all about it . . . I so enjoy when you wax poetic regarding your hero.http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

Truth be told, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Truth be told, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Really??? . . . allow me to refresh your recollection

Originally Posted by 430CLK

It was quite the scene last night - swarmed w/media outside, but none inside. Edwards came in at about 8:30 and, in brief, of all the politicians I've seen, he probably seemed like one of the more basic, decent human beings. He never mentioned Bush once (I guess he figures, what's the point?) and only mentioned the war once. Instead he focused on what we, as a country have as far as potential and what our moral responsibilites are. In short, he believes that we are far, far better than this. We are wasting money and human potential which needs to be put to work both at home, an more importantly around the world. Very positive and uplifiting. Thanked the crowd for their well wishes for his wife and never mentioned that issue again.

He took questions from the audience afterwards and I am proud to say, he picked Mrs. Clickster first. She was absolutely beaming all night from that - needless to say she is (and was going into the event) a huge supporter and will, in all likelihood, work on his campaign.

The whole thing lasted 30 - 40 minutes tops.

Monday night - Bill Richardson @ Zanzibar on 9th Avenue

I hope you didn't give too much of your hard earned cash to Senator Charlatan http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

Dear Hard Posting Chimp - you might have missed it (god knows how) but on earlier GSS thread, koal claimed to have a doctorate, but once challenged, immediately backed down.
I do have one, ass. And you're a hypocritical jerk. You spot all this socialist garbage, and yet you're handle is a symbol of capitalism. And what do you do for a living?

Really??? . . . allow me to refresh your recollection


I hope you didn't give too much of your hard earned cash to Senator Charlatan http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070http://grandslamsingle.com/forum/image.php?u=465&dateline=1154755070

I'm still not seeing the furniture store connection thing, but I'm assuming that means Ms. Edwards owns one, which again, I had no idea. Yeah, Edwards turned out to be a real jackass, I was wrong - they day I hear you admit something similar......

I do have one, ass.

Oh please

I do have one ass.

dude, you not only have an ass, you are an ass.

I'm still not seeing the furniture store connection thing, but I'm assuming that means Ms. Edwards owns one, which again, I had no idea. Yeah, Edwards turned out to be a real jackass, I was wrong - they day I hear you admit something similar......

Elizabeth Edwards opens furniture store in NC
Aug 22 07:15 PM US/Eastern

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (AP) - The wife of former North Carolina Sen. and presidential candidate John Edwards has opened a furniture store.

Multiple media outlets report that Elizabeth Edwards opened the store called Red Window in downtown Chapel Hill on Saturday. Edwards says the store will be similar to The Red Door, a charity store her mother managed in Japan.

John Edwards also attended the opening.

He confessed last year to an affair with Rielle Hunter, a videographer on his 2008 presidential campaign. Elizabeth Edwards says she's trying to ignore tabloid reports that her husband fathered Hunter's child.

A federal grand jury is investigating whether the candidate's campaign funds were illegally paid to Hunter to keep quiet about the affair.


And for the record, CLK, I have acknowledged that I've been fallible on occasion (see: Randolph, Willie - as a leader of men; and Beltran, Carlos - being a pussy) . . . but I'll take being fallible over being gullible (as you were with Senator Charlatan) any day. I do hope it didn't cost you too much in campaign contributions . . . and I do hope Mrs. Clickster was not too crestfallen when Senator Charlatan was exposed as the fraudulent slimeball that he is and always has been.

I'm the only one who would care but I really hope that store is in Carrboro and not in Chapel Hill. Carrboro does that..a little like 516ers calling themselves New Yorkers........ :cool:

And for the record, CLK, I have acknowledged that I've been fallible on occasion (see: Randolph, Willie - as a leader of men; and Beltran, Carlos - being a pussy) . . . but I'll take being fallible over being gullible (as you were with Senator Charlatan) any day. I do hope it didn't cost you too much in campaign contributions . . . and I do hope Mrs. Clickster was not too crestfallen when Senator Charlatan was exposed as the fraudulent slimeball that he is and always has been.

Wow, when you take a brazen stand in favor of something, it is really unparalleled. To answer your questions:

1.) $200.00
2.) Bummed, but she got over it, she's not much of a political animal

For the record, I voted for Obama in the NJ primary and she voted for Edwards - we ran out of a libereral upper east side dinner party to cast our votes in Hoboken.

a little like 516ers calling themselves New Yorkers........ :cool:


Hey now! It says New York on the license plate!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/18/snl-on-joe-wilson-how-you_n_291090.html

I'm the only one who would care but I really hope that store is in Carrboro and not in Chapel Hill. Carrboro does that..a little like 516ers calling themselves New Yorkers........ :cool:

Nassau County Long Island isn't in NY?

When did Long Island become it's own state?

As Laughlin McDonald, director of the ACLU’s Voting Project, relates in his book A Voting Rights Odyssey: Black Enfranchisement in [state's name], XXXXXX's board tried to stop the construction of a new “Elementary Negro School” in 1956. Local white citizens had complained that the school would be “too close” to a white school. As a result, “the children, both colored and white, would have to travel the same streets and roads in order to reach their respective schools.” The prospect of black and white children commingling on the streets on their way to school was apparently so horrible to XXXXXX that he requested that the state school board stop construction of the black school until a new site could be found. The state board turned down XXXXXX’s request because of “the staggering cost.” XXXXXX and the rest of the County School Board then reassured parents at a meeting on October 5, 1956, that the board “would do everything in its power to minimize simultaneous traffic between white and colored students in route to and from school.”

wanna take a guess what name i've x'd out???

A graduate of the U.S Naval Academy, I bet . . . that place churns out racists like peanuts into peanut butter ;)

Nassau County Long Island isn't in NY?

When did Long Island become it's own state?

Buffalo is in New York State as well. A Buffalo resident isn't called a New Yorker in the usual usage of the designation.

A New Yorker is a NYC resident just as a Parisian is from Paris. 516ers are Long Gislanders or Bridge and Tunnel people..... :)

Really?
And where did you go to college?

That's the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard.


http://www.nysl.nysed.gov/genealogy/images/county.gif
Just a reminder of what NEW YORK looks like and anything within those confines....are New Yorkers.
Until Buffalo or any other part of that state becomes it's own state....they are all New Yorkers.

Sometimes I forget just how big this state really is...

Disagree Peeps. The common use of New Yorker is a resident of New York City not the state. Hey, they "named it twice" to quote song lyrics but when one hears things like, "she's a real New Yorker" or tourists saying "I love New York" they are NOT referring to the excitement of Schnectady or Nassau County!

516ers under this common usage are Long Islanders as opposed to New Yorkers. Of course, they are New Yorkers under the broader term you suggest but I think there's more city identity in such as Bostonian or Philadelphian than there is in Pennsylvanian or Massachusetter (or whatever).

"I love New York" they are NOT referring to the excitement of Schnectady or Nassau County!



bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.


The I Love New York logo is a rebus created by Milton Glaser consisting of the capital letter I, followed by a red heart symbol (♥), below which are the capital letters N and Y, set in a rounded slab serif typeface called American Typewriter. The logo and advertising campaign have been used for decades to promote tourism in New York State — not just New York City, as many believe.

once upon a time anything north of 34th street was upstate to Me

as a resident of the tri-city area Which includes Schnectady and yes I say that with a measure of pride and derision and as someone who now considers upstate My home Tar I have a real issue with someone thinking that a real "new yorker" is from the 212 area code, even if you define 212 in the broader geographical area that say 516 may of once been considered . For the record as a former suffolk person I would still consider all of long island to be 516 and not just Nassau Peebs.

Upstate can have just a legitimate claim to being the real new york as Manhattan or Buffalo or the forks of long island.

What is "common" is related to location Tar. Grant you numbers in locations vary and are weighed more heavily in one place over another but since when did/do numbers determine something like who "real" new yorkers are?

Tarheel's ridiculous thoughts on a true NYer (which Bix so kindly pointed out) is as stupid as someone saying a person who lives in Dallas is the only "real" Texan or a resident of Los Angeles is the only "real" Californian.

Besides...Tar, didn't you live in NJ? Yea. Ok.

bzzzzzzt (whatever that is)

I referred to a tourist saying "I love New York". Where did some guy named Glaser's ad campaign become involved. Are you stating that nobody said "I love New York" referring to the city before Milton began his campaign? And silly Peebs goes right along without really thinking. I guaran-damn-tee you as a Texan might say, that when one hears I love New York across the country (or I hate it for that matter) 90% are referring to NYC. If one wants to think it's Patchogue, fine. I was talking majority not every single soul.

What have I got to do with it? Poor Peebs has to see everything as a personal confrontation. OK, you spent a lot of time in the city so you're a New Yorker.... :rolleyes:

And where was this about me being a New Yorker although I was born in Manhatten to parents who lived on Jane St in the Village and lived as a 212er until I went away to school. That's where I learned the term 516er.... :)

Obviously as I pointed out earlier, the term New Yorker can be used referring to a resident of New York State. It would be ridiculous to question that and I didn't. My point was simply that to the great majority of Americans, when they hear "New Yawker" they think city not state and that 516ers want to be a part of that great city because..well...because it is a great city.

bzzzzzzt (whatever that is)



Its the opposite of "ding, ding, ding".

I just think its funny that when it suits you, you're the average man middle american country boy from the carolinas and I'm the, what was it? "New York wise guy" who's out of touch with the rest of the country (even though i've lived in the swingyiest swing state for the last 10 years and in red-meat indiana for the ten years before that.) But also when it suits you, you're a born and bred "212"er and everyone else is a wannabe.

hmmmmm....

What have I got to do with it? Poor Peebs has to see everything as a personal confrontation. OK, you spent a lot of time in the city so you're a New Yorker.... :rolleyes:


WRONG, Nice try.
I've lived my entire LIFE in this state so guess what...
I AM A NEW YORKER
and your not.

So if not "New Yorkers" then what phrase would you use to describe a resident of NY State?

It's bad enough that peoiple can't say they live in NY City ("The City") unless they're from Manhattan.

So if not "New Yorkers" then what phrase would you use to describe a resident of NY State?

"Jersey Wannabes"???....
:D :D :D

this thread has taken a hilarious turn...

Again....

As Phil alludes to with the designation "The City" referring not to the entire city but Manhatten, the term New Yorker is used by most NON-NEW YORKERS as applying to the city. Again Phil mentions that "The City" being just Manhatten is unfair in some ways. But the fact of the matter is that "The City" is Manhatten rightly or wrongly. Folks from Long Gisland can call themselves New Yorkers to they're blue in the face but to the outsider, a family growing up in e.g. Riverhead (Suffolk County works too I would assume) isn't considered either living "in the city" (obviously) or being New Yorkers in the sense that the great majority of Americans think when they hear "I'm from New York". Again...rightly or wrongly.

Its the opposite of "ding, ding, ding".

I just think its funny that when it suits you, you're the average man middle american country boy from the carolinas and I'm the, what was it? "New York wise guy" who's out of touch with the rest of the country (even though i've lived in the swingyiest swing state for the last 10 years and in red-meat indiana for the ten years before that.) But also when it suits you, you're a born and bred "212"er and everyone else is a wannabe.

hmmmmm....

bix old boy, I am RESPONDING to another poster.

Again....

the great majority of Americans think when they hear "I'm from New York". Again...rightly or wrongly.


Being from "the city" (in your strictest sense), but having lived all of my adult life in illinois, california, indiana, and florida, I can tell you for sure this is not true. Whenever people ask me where i am from and I say "Im from New York", there is ALWAYS the followup question "where in new york?" I used to assume, as you do, that they meant "where in the city?", and I would answer "upper west side". They would look at me like i was a weirdo. So now I always say "New york city", and they give you the look that says "oh, ok, that's what i was asking", not the "duh!" look.

So clearly, to most people in Illinois, California, Indiana, and Florida, "Im from NY" means new york state.

EXACTLY.
People from not only around the country but around the WORLD can tell I am from NY by my accent. They don't automatically assume I am from Manhattan or the other boroughs. They always ask where in NY I am from.

It's only snobs who assume NY revolves around the Island of Manhattan.

When I'm asked where I'm from I say NY, and if I'm asked where in NY I'll tell them Long Island. Alot of people don't get LI, they think it's a few miles long, and that it is basically the Hamptons.
Now I say I'm live outside of Detroit, it's the best reference point.
What catches me by surprise is when someone says they are from NY, and when you ask where they say Rochester, and they have a Brooklyn accent.

Well count me as a snob then because New York City DOES revolve around Manhatten...... :)

Let's see: Broadway shows, Wall St, the Met, Carnegie Hall, all the great museums, Rockefeller Center and the TV biz, the music history of Greenwich Village, the best restaurants in the world. Should I go on or are you off shopping at the Green Acres Mall?

Bix: maybe in the midwest but not where I hang out!

Bix: maybe in the midwest but not where I hang out!


I've only been asked where i was from in NC once. I picked up a hitchhiking couple on US 158. One of them asked me where i was from (I was driving a rental with VA plates, I think), and I said "live in Florida but I'm from NY".) the woman just turned to her husband and said "I cant believe we got picked up by a yankee".

:laugh:

People from not only around the country but around the WORLD can tell I am from NY by my accent.

It's only snobs who assume NY revolves around the Island of Manhattan.

Peebs walks into a bar in Istanbul. "Hey howyadoin?" she greets the bartender. "Welcome", says the barkeep, "516 right babee?"

the woman just turned to her husband and said "I cant believe we got picked up by a yankee".



I would have thrown her out of the car and yelled, "JETER SUCKS!!!"

Well count me as a snob then because New York City DOES revolve around Manhatten...... :)

Let's see: Broadway shows, Wall St, the Met, Carnegie Hall, all the great museums, Rockefeller Center and the TV biz, the music history of Greenwich Village, the best restaurants in the world. Should I go on or are you off shopping at the Green Acres Mall?

Bix: maybe in the midwest but not where I hang out!
Here ladies and gentleman is the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever read on GSS and I have read a lot of bullshit.

Put the gin glass down old man.

Well count me as a snob then because New York City DOES revolve around Manhatten...... :)



How about the, um... :metslogo: ?

I found there's a fairly blatant racism in America that's already there, and I don't think I noticed it when I lived here as a kid. But when I went back to South Africa, and then it's sort of thrust in your face, and then came back here -- I just see it everywhere. There's a good population of people in this country that are terrified of the president only because he's black, even if they don't say it. And I think a lot of them, behind closed doors, do say it.

what notable statesman said this in an interview with CNN that apparently needed to be a headline on their website...

the one and only Dave Matthews...

this country is getting stupitter every day...

Here ladies and gentleman is the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever read on GSS and I have read a lot of bullshit.


Unfortunately you decided to post most of it.

And you're LONG past young yourself darlin'. I know 39 and holdin'..... :D